On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
30 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Andrew Bayer
Hey all -

So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.

Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?

A.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

justinedelson
Kenai?


From: Andrew Bayer [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:14 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Hey all -

So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.

Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?

A.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Frederic Jean-5
In reply to this post by Andrew Bayer
I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

Fred

Andrew Bayer wrote:
Hey all -

So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.

Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?

A.

--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

justinedelson
Fred - are there any tools availble to handle java.net -> kenai conversion? I'm thinking specifically about not losing version history and issue migration.
 
Justin


From: Frederic Jean [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:22 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

Fred

Andrew Bayer wrote:
Hey all -

So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.

Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?

A.

--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

R. Tyler Ballance
In reply to this post by Frederic Jean-5
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]
--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.

attachment0 (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

justinedelson
Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
 
My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
 
Justin


From: R. Tyler Ballance [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]

--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Frederic Jean-5
In reply to this post by justinedelson
I know that we have transitioned projects from Collabnet based infrastructures on Kenai.com. Most of the services we provide have their own migration strategy (svnsync for SVN, moving issues from BugZilla or Jira to our instances of the same). We don't quite have the tools to migrate a java.net project to kenai.com in one step though. This would certainly be an incentive to put such tools together.

Fred

Edelson, Justin wrote:
Fred - are there any tools availble to handle java.net -> kenai conversion? I'm thinking specifically about not losing version history and issue migration.
 
Justin


From: Frederic Jean [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:22 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

Fred

Andrew Bayer wrote:
Hey all -

So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.

Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?

A.

--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

R. Tyler Ballance
In reply to this post by Andrew Bayer
An aside, if we do want to have a Hudson meetup, as abayer@ mentioned I
can offer up plenty of space at Slide's offices :)

I've spoken with our VP of Engineering and he's totally fine with it,
the sooner a time and numbers can gel together I can arrange a large
room for us, network connectivity and food/drink.


Cheers

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 03:14:27PM -0700, Andrew Bayer wrote:

>    Hey all -
>
>    So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>    result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when
>    java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download
>    Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net
>    issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the
>    amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and
>    the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties
>    users have in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked
>    on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have a real
>    discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't
>    know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>    java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>    something we should pursue.
>
>    Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay
>    Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>    actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>    the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>    then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>    2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>    afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>    Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so, does
>    sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about anyone else
>    in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>    A.
--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.

attachment0 (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Frederic Jean-5
In reply to this post by justinedelson
We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them. Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.

We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com. Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun (probably Oracle by then) cloud.

We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).

Fred

Edelson, Justin wrote:
Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
 
My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
 
Justin


From: R. Tyler Ballance [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]

--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Frederic Jean-5
Another thing to consider is whether we should also change SCM tool for the Hudson code. I personally would not mind going from Subversion to one of the DVCSes.

Fred

Frederic Jean wrote:
We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them. Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.

We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com. Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun (probably Oracle by then) cloud.

We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).

Fred

Edelson, Justin wrote:
Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
 
My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
 
Justin


From: R. Tyler Ballance [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]

--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

justinedelson
Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
One interesting option provided by Kenai is having a single project with multiple repositories. So the main Hudson could still be in SVN and the plugins tree could be moved to Git or Mercurial.


From: Frederic Jean [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 5:39 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Another thing to consider is whether we should also change SCM tool for the Hudson code. I personally would not mind going from Subversion to one of the DVCSes.

Fred

Frederic Jean wrote:
We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them. Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.

We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com. Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun (probably Oracle by then) cloud.

We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).

Fred

Edelson, Justin wrote:
FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
 
My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
 
Justin


From: R. Tyler Ballance [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]

--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

R. Tyler Ballance
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 09:08:51PM -0400, Edelson, Justin wrote:
>    One interesting option provided by Kenai is having a single project with
>    multiple repositories. So the main Hudson could still be in SVN and the
>    plugins tree could be moved to Git or Mercurial.

This is something I was actually putting forth to abayer on IRC earlier,
IMHO keeping core in SVN and moving all the plugins into their own
separate little Git repositories makes a lot of sense (I say Git,
because of http://hg-git.github.com :))


I think this, along with discussion of moving to Kenai or
$SOMETHING_ELSE would make for a good discussion tomorrow. What time
shall we schedule it for?

>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>    From: Frederic Jean [mailto:[hidden email]]
>    Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 5:39 PM
>    To: [hidden email]
>    Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
>    Another thing to consider is whether we should also change SCM tool for
>    the Hudson code. I personally would not mind going from Subversion to one
>    of the DVCSes.
>
>    Fred
>
>    Frederic Jean wrote:
>
>      We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them.
>      Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.
>
>      We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com.
>      Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it
>      justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's
>      infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun
>      (probably Oracle by then) cloud.
>
>      We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to
>      invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun
>      to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based
>      infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the
>      kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai
>      integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).
>
>      Fred
>
>      Edelson, Justin wrote:
>
>        FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
>        
>        My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in
>        favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that
>        they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
>        
>        Justin
>
>      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>        From: R. Tyler Ballance [mailto:[hidden email]]
>        Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
>        To: [hidden email]
>        Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
>
>        On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>        >    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make
>        it to
>        >    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full
>        disclosure: I am
>        >    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased...
>        )
>
>        <devils-advocate>
>
>        I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
>        fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger
>        project
>        like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find
>        anything
>        "big" so to speak.
>
>        Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
>        hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases
>        in
>        any given month.
>
>        I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or
>        Sun
>        beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
>        instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like:
>        SourceForge,
>        Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)
>
>        </devils-advocate>
>
>        >
>        >    Fred
>        >
>        >    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>        >
>        >      Hey all -
>        >
>        >      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that,
>        as a
>        >      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and
>        usage -
>        >      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users
>        can't
>        >      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of
>        that, the
>        >      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable,
>        really.
>        >      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC
>        relating to
>        >      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs
>        (and the
>        >      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have
>        already/are
>        >      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need
>        to have
>        >      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going
>        forward. I
>        >      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to
>        stay at
>        >      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc
>        is really
>        >      something we should pursue.
>        >
>        >      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community
>        in the
>        >      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we
>        might want to
>        >      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try
>        to crash
>        >      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking
>        badges by
>        >      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's
>        offices, at
>        >      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in
>        the
>        >      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense
>        food!).
>        >      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss?
>        If so,
>        >      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How
>        about
>        >      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>        >
>        >      A.
>        >
>        >    --
>        >
>        >    Frederic Jean
>        >    Staff Engineer, SW
>        >
>        >    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>        >    500 Eldorado Blvd
>        >    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>        >    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>        >    Email [hidden email]
>
>        --
>        -R. Tyler Ballance
>        Slide, Inc.
>
>      --
>
>      Frederic Jean
>      Staff Engineer, SW
>
>      Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>      500 Eldorado Blvd
>      Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>      Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>      Email [hidden email]
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]
--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.

attachment0 (204 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Jorg Heymans-4
In reply to this post by Andrew Bayer
+1000 to moving away from java.net ! Here's a rant i had written a
while ago, and after yesterday's outage i was planning to send it out
today :

<RANT>

Sometimes i really wonder how much longer Hudson as a project can
afford to stay on dev.java.net without losing momentum or hurt its
user/developer community. There might be some politics behind the
java.net hosting, but really:

- 10-30 seconds response time for every click ?
- download browsing through a tree widget (??) that takes several
minutes to expand just to get to the plugin you want, that is if it
doesn't time out beforehand !
- prehistoric issue tracker, dog slow in navigation and search. Last
time i tried to add a comment to an existing issue i gave up after
several minutes of clicking, waiting and searching.

Hudson is a killer tool that deserves a killer and modern hosting
infrastructure so let's give it one. There are enough alternatives out
there.
</RANT>


Feeling much more relieved now,
Jorg

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey all -
>
> So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result,
> causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when
> java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download
> Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue
> system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of
> traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the
> difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have
> in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I
> think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about
> Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are
> Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving
> to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.
>
> Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay
> Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
> actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the
> BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but
> rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan,
> maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the
> evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth
> getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it
> would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or
> whatever?
>
> A.
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Erik Ramfelt
I feel the same thing, and using the issue tracker is very
frustrating. The issue tracker is actually one of the reasons why I
use Mylyn so I dont have to interact with it personally. Im for moving
to a new place, but i reccon there might be politics behind it.

My wish list for a new place:
* Jira as the issue tracker (or anything similar and modern)
* Wiki that can use the existing wiki pages or at least do a simple conversion
* It can host a Hudson build server, so we can have a place where core
and all plugins does not get built in one free style job where it is
impossible to get the latest snapshots.

regards
//Erik



On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:12, Jorg Heymans <[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1000 to moving away from java.net ! Here's a rant i had written a
> while ago, and after yesterday's outage i was planning to send it out
> today :
>
> <RANT>
>
> Sometimes i really wonder how much longer Hudson as a project can
> afford to stay on dev.java.net without losing momentum or hurt its
> user/developer community. There might be some politics behind the
> java.net hosting, but really:
>
> - 10-30 seconds response time for every click ?
> - download browsing through a tree widget (??) that takes several
> minutes to expand just to get to the plugin you want, that is if it
> doesn't time out beforehand !
> - prehistoric issue tracker, dog slow in navigation and search. Last
> time i tried to add a comment to an existing issue i gave up after
> several minutes of clicking, waiting and searching.
>
> Hudson is a killer tool that deserves a killer and modern hosting
> infrastructure so let's give it one. There are enough alternatives out
> there.
> </RANT>
>
>
> Feeling much more relieved now,
> Jorg
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hey all -
>>
>> So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result,
>> causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when
>> java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download
>> Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue
>> system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of
>> traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the
>> difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have
>> in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I
>> think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about
>> Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are
>> Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving
>> to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.
>>
>> Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay
>> Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>> actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the
>> BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but
>> rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan,
>> maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the
>> evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth
>> getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it
>> would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or
>> whatever?
>>
>> A.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Nord, James
+ the scm needs to be corporate firewall friendly (ie work over http or
https) and have a good web based viewer/browser

/James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Erik Ramfelt
> Sent: 03 June 2009 10:14
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
>
> I feel the same thing, and using the issue tracker is very
> frustrating. The issue tracker is actually one of the reasons
> why I use Mylyn so I dont have to interact with it
> personally. Im for moving to a new place, but i reccon there
> might be politics behind it.
>
> My wish list for a new place:
> * Jira as the issue tracker (or anything similar and modern)
> * Wiki that can use the existing wiki pages or at least do a
> simple conversion
> * It can host a Hudson build server, so we can have a place
> where core and all plugins does not get built in one free
> style job where it is impossible to get the latest snapshots.
>
> regards
> //Erik
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:12, Jorg Heymans
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > +1000 to moving away from java.net ! Here's a rant i had written a
> > while ago, and after yesterday's outage i was planning to
> send it out
> > today :
> >
> > <RANT>
> >
> > Sometimes i really wonder how much longer Hudson as a project can
> > afford to stay on dev.java.net without losing momentum or hurt its
> > user/developer community. There might be some politics behind the
> > java.net hosting, but really:
> >
> > - 10-30 seconds response time for every click ?
> > - download browsing through a tree widget (??) that takes several
> > minutes to expand just to get to the plugin you want, that is if it
> > doesn't time out beforehand !
> > - prehistoric issue tracker, dog slow in navigation and
> search. Last
> > time i tried to add a comment to an existing issue i gave up after
> > several minutes of clicking, waiting and searching.
> >
> > Hudson is a killer tool that deserves a killer and modern hosting
> > infrastructure so let's give it one. There are enough
> alternatives out
> > there.
> > </RANT>
> >
> >
> > Feeling much more relieved now,
> > Jorg
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Bayer
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Hey all -
> >>
> >> So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and
> that, as a
> >> result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development
> and usage -
> >> when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified,
> users can't
> >> download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top
> of that, the
> >> java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not
> usable, really.
> >> Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC
> relating
> >> to java.net, and the difficulties developers have in
> fixing bugs (and
> >> the difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have
> >> already/are being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the
> point where
> >> we need to have a real discussion about Hudon's
> >> hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are
> >> Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net,
> but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is
> really something we should pursue.
> >>
> >> Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in
> >> the Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering
> if we might
> >> want to actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm
> planning to
> >> try to crash the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not
> >> checking badges by then!), but rtyler has offered to host
> a sitdown
> >> at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or
> >> possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the evening
> (he thinks
> >> he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth getting
> >> together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it
> >> would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it
> for JavaOne or whatever?
> >>
> >> A.
> >>
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

**************************************************************************************
This message is confidential and intended only for the addressee. If you have received this message in error, please immediately notify the [hidden email] and delete it from your system as well as any copies. The content of e-mails as well as traffic data may be monitored by NDS for employment and security purposes. To protect the environment please do not print this e-mail unless necessary.

NDS Limited. Registered Office: One London Road, Staines, Middlesex, TW18 4EX, United Kingdom. A company registered in England and Wales. Registered no. 3080780. VAT no. GB 603 8808 40-00
**************************************************************************************

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Jon Schewe
In reply to this post by Erik Ramfelt
One thing I would vote for would be Trac or something like it that allows one to easily link between the wiki and source and tickets and source and vice versa. I've really liked that I can put ticket:123 in my commit messages and then when I look at the commit on trac I can link to the ticket. I can also put changeset:345 in my ticket and it links to the changeset in the source. The same links work in the wiki as well.

Erik Ramfelt wrote:
I feel the same thing, and using the issue tracker is very
frustrating. The issue tracker is actually one of the reasons why I
use Mylyn so I dont have to interact with it personally. Im for moving
to a new place, but i reccon there might be politics behind it.

My wish list for a new place:
* Jira as the issue tracker (or anything similar and modern)
* Wiki that can use the existing wiki pages or at least do a simple conversion
* It can host a Hudson build server, so we can have a place where core
and all plugins does not get built in one free style job where it is
impossible to get the latest snapshots.

regards
//Erik



On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:12, Jorg Heymans [hidden email] wrote:
  
+1000 to moving away from java.net ! Here's a rant i had written a
while ago, and after yesterday's outage i was planning to send it out
today :

<RANT>

Sometimes i really wonder how much longer Hudson as a project can
afford to stay on dev.java.net without losing momentum or hurt its
user/developer community. There might be some politics behind the
java.net hosting, but really:

- 10-30 seconds response time for every click ?
- download browsing through a tree widget (??) that takes several
minutes to expand just to get to the plugin you want, that is if it
doesn't time out beforehand !
- prehistoric issue tracker, dog slow in navigation and search. Last
time i tried to add a comment to an existing issue i gave up after
several minutes of clicking, waiting and searching.

Hudson is a killer tool that deserves a killer and modern hosting
infrastructure so let's give it one. There are enough alternatives out
there.
</RANT>


Feeling much more relieved now,
Jorg

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Bayer [hidden email] wrote:
    
Hey all -

So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a result,
causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage - when
java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't download
Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the java.net issue
system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really. Given the amount of
traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to java.net, and the
difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the difficulties users have
in finding whether their issues have already/are being worked on/etc), I
think we've hit the point where we need to have a real discussion about
Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I don't know if there are
Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net, but if not, moving
to another host/issues system/etc is really something we should pursue.

Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the Bay
Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash the
BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by then!), but
rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at 2nd and Brannan,
maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the afternoon/earlier in the
evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this something worth
getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow sound like it
would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or
whatever?

A.

      
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]


    

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

  

-- 
Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my digital
signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for more information.

For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor
demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will
be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ
Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Braam Wijsmuller-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Bayer

Trac! yes I like it a lot.

For days now I'm trying to upload a patch to a plugin, but the java.net website is preventing me from doing it (in various ways).

--- On Wed, 6/3/09, Jon Schewe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Jon Schewe <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009, 2:21 PM
>
>
>
>  
>
>  
> One thing I would vote for would be Trac or something like
> it that
> allows one to easily link between the wiki and source and
> tickets and
> source and vice versa. I've really liked that I can put
> ticket:123 in
> my commit messages and then when I look at the commit on
> trac I can
> link to the ticket. I can also put changeset:345 in my
> ticket and it
> links to the changeset in the source. The same links work
> in the wiki
> as well.
>
>
>
> Erik Ramfelt wrote:
>
>   I feel the same thing, and using the issue tracker
> is very
> frustrating. The issue tracker is actually one of the
> reasons why I
> use Mylyn so I dont have to interact with it personally. Im
> for moving
> to a new place, but i reccon there might be politics behind
> it.
>
> My wish list for a new place:
> * Jira as the issue tracker (or anything similar and
> modern)
> * Wiki that can use the existing wiki pages or at least do
> a simple conversion
> * It can host a Hudson build server, so we can have a place
> where core
> and all plugins does not get built in one free style job
> where it is
> impossible to get the latest snapshots.
>
> regards
> //Erik
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:12, Jorg Heymans <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>  
>  
>     +1000 to moving away from java.net ! Here's a
> rant i had written a
> while ago, and after yesterday's outage i was planning
> to send it out
> today :
>
> <RANT>
>
> Sometimes i really wonder how much longer Hudson as a
> project can
> afford to stay on dev.java.net without losing momentum or
> hurt its
> user/developer community. There might be some politics
> behind the
> java.net hosting, but really:
>
> - 10-30 seconds response time for every click ?
> - download browsing through a tree widget (??) that takes
> several
> minutes to expand just to get to the plugin you want, that
> is if it
> doesn't time out beforehand !
> - prehistoric issue tracker, dog slow in navigation and
> search. Last
> time i tried to add a comment to an existing issue i gave
> up after
> several minutes of clicking, waiting and searching.
>
> Hudson is a killer tool that deserves a killer and modern
> hosting
> infrastructure so let's give it one. There are enough
> alternatives out
> there.
> </RANT>
>
>
> Feeling much more relieved now,
> Jorg
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Andrew Bayer <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>    
>    
>       Hey all -
>
> So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and
> that, as a result,
> causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage
> - when
> java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified,
> users can't download
> Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of
> that, the java.net issue
> system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
> Given the amount of
> traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
> java.net, and the
> difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
> difficulties users have
> in finding whether their issues have already/are being
> worked on/etc), I
> think we've hit the point where we need to have a real
> discussion about
> Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
> don't know if there are
> Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at java.net,
> but if not, moving
> to another host/issues system/etc is really something we
> should pursue.
>
> Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev
> community in the Bay
> Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we
> might want to
> actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm
> planning to try to crash the
> BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not
> checking badges by then!), but
> rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's
> offices, at 2nd and Brannan,
> maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
> afternoon/earlier in the
> evening (he thinks he can expense food!). Kohsuke, is this
> something worth
> getting together to discuss? If so, does sometime tomorrow
> sound like it
> would work for you? How about anyone else in town, be it
> for JavaOne or
> whatever?
>
> A.
>
>      
>    
>    
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
>    
>  
>  
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>  
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Schewe | http://mtu.net/~jpschewe
> If you see an attachment named signature.asc, this is my
> digital
> signature. See http://www.gnupg.org for
> more information.
>
> For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither
> angels nor
> demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
> neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all
> creation, will
> be able to separate us from the love of God that is in
> Christ
> Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:38-39
>
>  
>
>


     

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Andrew Bayer
In reply to this post by justinedelson
The more I look at Kenai, the more I think it's the right way to go. While I'm not sure if splitting out the plugins into a separate SCM makes sense, having the freedom to do that sort of thing would be a very good thing. We'd also be able to eat our own cooking even more thoroughly than we do now, with the planned addition of Hudson support to Kenai. And getting JIRA would, of course, be a good thing.

I do still have a couple concerns/questions, though. Would we still be able to have Fisheye hooked up to our SVN repo? I absolutely adore Fisheye and would really like to be able to keep it.

A.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Edelson, Justin <[hidden email]> wrote:
One interesting option provided by Kenai is having a single project with multiple repositories. So the main Hudson could still be in SVN and the plugins tree could be moved to Git or Mercurial.


From: Frederic Jean [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 5:39 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Another thing to consider is whether we should also change SCM tool for the Hudson code. I personally would not mind going from Subversion to one of the DVCSes.

Fred

Frederic Jean wrote:
We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them. Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.

We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com. Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun (probably Oracle by then) cloud.

We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).

Fred

Edelson, Justin wrote:
FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
 
My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
 
Justin


From: R. Tyler Ballance [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]

--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

RE: Re: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

justinedelson
Fisheye can run against any accessible Subversion server (or other SCMs). We just have to tell Atlassian to switch the URL to the Kenai SVN url. Moving plugins to Git would just mean that we need to set up a secondary Fisheye repository, which isn't that big a deal.


From: Andrew Bayer [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wed 6/3/2009 7:14 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

The more I look at Kenai, the more I think it's the right way to go. While I'm not sure if splitting out the plugins into a separate SCM makes sense, having the freedom to do that sort of thing would be a very good thing. We'd also be able to eat our own cooking even more thoroughly than we do now, with the planned addition of Hudson support to Kenai. And getting JIRA would, of course, be a good thing.

I do still have a couple concerns/questions, though. Would we still be able to have Fisheye hooked up to our SVN repo? I absolutely adore Fisheye and would really like to be able to keep it.

A.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Edelson, Justin <[hidden email]> wrote:
One interesting option provided by Kenai is having a single project with multiple repositories. So the main Hudson could still be in SVN and the plugins tree could be moved to Git or Mercurial.


From: Frederic Jean [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 5:39 PM

To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

Another thing to consider is whether we should also change SCM tool for the Hudson code. I personally would not mind going from Subversion to one of the DVCSes.

Fred

Frederic Jean wrote:
We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them. Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.

We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com. Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun (probably Oracle by then) cloud.

We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).

Fred

Edelson, Justin wrote:
FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
 
My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
 
Justin


From: R. Tyler Ballance [[hidden email]]
Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make it to
>    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full disclosure: I am
>    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased... )

<devils-advocate>

I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger project
like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find anything
"big" so to speak.

Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases in
any given month.

I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or Sun
beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like: SourceForge,
Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)

</devils-advocate>


>
>    Fred
>
>    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>
>      Hey all -
>
>      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that, as a
>      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and usage -
>      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users can't
>      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of that, the
>      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable, really.
>      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC relating to
>      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs (and the
>      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have already/are
>      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need to have
>      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going forward. I
>      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to stay at
>      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc is really
>      something we should pursue.
>
>      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community in the
>      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we might want to
>      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try to crash
>      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking badges by
>      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's offices, at
>      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in the
>      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense food!).
>      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss? If so,
>      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How about
>      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>
>      A.
>
>    --
>
>    Frederic Jean
>    Staff Engineer, SW
>
>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>    Email [hidden email]

--
-R. Tyler Ballance
Slide, Inc.


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


--

Frederic Jean
Staff Engineer, SW

Sun Microsystems, Inc.
500 Eldorado Blvd
Broomfield, CO 80241 US
Phone 303-223-7949/31084
Email [hidden email]


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure

davidmc24
In reply to this post by R. Tyler Ballance
What would be the benefit of having the plugins in separate
repositories from Hudson core?

On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:35 PM, R. Tyler Ballance <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 09:08:51PM -0400, Edelson, Justin wrote:
>>    One interesting option provided by Kenai is having a single project with
>>    multiple repositories. So the main Hudson could still be in SVN and the
>>    plugins tree could be moved to Git or Mercurial.
>
> This is something I was actually putting forth to abayer on IRC earlier,
> IMHO keeping core in SVN and moving all the plugins into their own
> separate little Git repositories makes a lot of sense (I say Git,
> because of http://hg-git.github.com :))
>
>
> I think this, along with discussion of moving to Kenai or
> $SOMETHING_ELSE would make for a good discussion tomorrow. What time
> shall we schedule it for?
>
>>
>>      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>    From: Frederic Jean [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>    Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 5:39 PM
>>    To: [hidden email]
>>    Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
>>    Another thing to consider is whether we should also change SCM tool for
>>    the Hudson code. I personally would not mind going from Subversion to one
>>    of the DVCSes.
>>
>>    Fred
>>
>>    Frederic Jean wrote:
>>
>>      We do have a few sizable projects on kenai.com. JRuby is one of them.
>>      Kenai development itself is hosted on kenai.com.
>>
>>      We are looking to provide a Hosted Hudson offering as part of Kenai.com.
>>      Today's technical session did mention it (although it barely gave it
>>      justice). The Hudson server they mentioned is hosted Kenai's
>>      infrastructure. The plan is to host the production service on the Sun
>>      (probably Oracle by then) cloud.
>>
>>      We certainly hope that Oracle will choose to retain and continue to
>>      invest in Kenai. I can tell you that there is strong interest within Sun
>>      to see Kenai thrive and to move major projects over from Collabnet based
>>      infrastructure to either kenai.com proper or distinct deployments of the
>>      kenai technology. This explains why we invested in the NetBeans/Kenai
>>      integration (which I am using right now to chat with my teammates :) ).
>>
>>      Fred
>>
>>      Edelson, Justin wrote:
>>
>>        FWIW, JRuby is a non-trivial project and is now hosted on Kenai.
>>
>>        My vague understanding is that Sun is looking to deprecate java.net in
>>        favor of Kenai. I also heard from someone at the JavaOne booth that
>>        they had plans soon to make Hudson available to Kenai users shortly.
>>
>>        Justin
>>
>>      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>        From: R. Tyler Ballance [mailto:[hidden email]]
>>        Sent: Tue 6/2/2009 3:28 PM
>>        To: [hidden email]
>>        Subject: Re: On the future of Hudson hosting and infrastructure
>>
>>        On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 04:22:29PM -0600, Frederic Jean wrote:
>>        >    I'll unfortunately will not be able to attend since I didn't make
>>        it to
>>        >    J1. I would like to suggest moving it to kenai.com (full
>>        disclosure: I am
>>        >    one of the engineers behind kenai.com so I am a little biased...
>>        )
>>
>>        <devils-advocate>
>>
>>        I've personally never heard of Kenai before, and it does look quite
>>        fancy but I am curious as to whether it can "withstand" a larger
>>        project
>>        like Hudson. Browsing through the projects listing I can't find
>>        anything
>>        "big" so to speak.
>>
>>        Hudson is not huge, but we're talking about thousands of tickets,
>>        hundreds of megabytes of source and jar files, and plenty of releases
>>        in
>>        any given month.
>>
>>        I'm curious as to how "proven" and supported a beta (Google beta? or
>>        Sun
>>        beta?) product from Sun would be to move the entire project over to,
>>        instead of a non-beta, established collaboration site like:
>>        SourceForge,
>>        Berlios, GitHub, etc (or even "our own" infrastructure)
>>
>>        </devils-advocate>
>>
>>        >
>>        >    Fred
>>        >
>>        >    Andrew Bayer wrote:
>>        >
>>        >      Hey all -
>>        >
>>        >      So, as we all know, java.net is extremely unreliable, and that,
>>        as a
>>        >      result, causes a *lot* of problems for Hudson development and
>>        usage -
>>        >      when java.net's down, issues can't be filed or modified, users
>>        can't
>>        >      download Hudson, plugins can't be updated, etc... On top of
>>        that, the
>>        >      java.net issue system frankly sucks - it's just not usable,
>>        really.
>>        >      Given the amount of traffic on the mailing list and in IRC
>>        relating to
>>        >      java.net, and the difficulties developers have in fixing bugs
>>        (and the
>>        >      difficulties users have in finding whether their issues have
>>        already/are
>>        >      being worked on/etc), I think we've hit the point where we need
>>        to have
>>        >      a real discussion about Hudon's hosting/infrastructure going
>>        forward. I
>>        >      don't know if there are Sun-related reasons requiring Hudson to
>>        stay at
>>        >      java.net, but if not, moving to another host/issues system/etc
>>        is really
>>        >      something we should pursue.
>>        >
>>        >      Given that we've got a decent chunk of the Hudson dev community
>>        in the
>>        >      Bay Area right now, thanks to JavaOne, I'm wondering if we
>>        might want to
>>        >      actually meet up in person to discuss this. I'm planning to try
>>        to crash
>>        >      the BOF tomorrow night (here's hoping they're not checking
>>        badges by
>>        >      then!), but rtyler has offered to host a sitdown at Slide's
>>        offices, at
>>        >      2nd and Brannan, maybe after the BOF, or possibly sometime in
>>        the
>>        >      afternoon/earlier in the evening (he thinks he can expense
>>        food!).
>>        >      Kohsuke, is this something worth getting together to discuss?
>>        If so,
>>        >      does sometime tomorrow sound like it would work for you? How
>>        about
>>        >      anyone else in town, be it for JavaOne or whatever?
>>        >
>>        >      A.
>>        >
>>        >    --
>>        >
>>        >    Frederic Jean
>>        >    Staff Engineer, SW
>>        >
>>        >    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>        >    500 Eldorado Blvd
>>        >    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>>        >    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>>        >    Email [hidden email]
>>
>>        --
>>        -R. Tyler Ballance
>>        Slide, Inc.
>>
>>      --
>>
>>      Frederic Jean
>>      Staff Engineer, SW
>>
>>      Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>      500 Eldorado Blvd
>>      Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>>      Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>>      Email [hidden email]
>>
>>    --
>>
>>    Frederic Jean
>>    Staff Engineer, SW
>>
>>    Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>    500 Eldorado Blvd
>>    Broomfield, CO 80241 US
>>    Phone 303-223-7949/31084
>>    Email [hidden email]
>
> --
> -R. Tyler Ballance
> Slide, Inc.
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]

12